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Media vs Priority Mail girlsaurus_x (72  ) (view author's auctions)04/06/04 02:48 PM  |
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| Did you know, dear seller, that comics do not classify for Media Mail shipping? I wish to mantain honest dealings and that means my dealings with the Post Office as well. So I have switched to offering only Priority Mail. It hasn't affected my sales at all, sales have increased 50%. I think God blesses honest dealings, but that is another topic for discussion. Honesty is so important in our line of business, don't you think? |
gifflefunk(auctions) (122 )  (view author's auctions)04/06/04 03:11 PM(#1 of 88) |
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| girlsaurus_x:
We've had similar threads here in the past. The last offical word was
that comicbooks do qualify for Media Mail. A memo was circulated to
branch offices with comicbooks listed as an allowed Media Mail item.
Sadly that thread expired off of this forum, but perhaps the person who
brought this to our attention will return. It was, however, my understanding that "books" do qualify for Media Mail which would include trade paperbacks and hardcover comics, but would not include the regular comics which are classified as periodicals per their indicia information and annual circulation data (so they can meet the periodical mail requirements). After several folks pestered their local Post Offices I guess they finally got around to resolving the issue and this memo was sent out. Personally I would like to see a copy of the memo, so hopefully the person who saw the memo at their branch PO will post something in this thread. |
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skg-auctions (286) (view author's auctions) 04/06/04 03:32 PM(#2 of 88) |
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| girlsaurus_x wrote: It hasn't affected my sales at all, sales have increased 50% I default to Media Mail and always offer the option of upgrading shipping to Priority Mail. I'm never had a buyer request an upgrade to priority. |
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girlsaurus_x (72) (view author's auctions) 04/06/04 03:38 PM(#3 of 88) |
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| Really? If such thing exists, appearently it never reached my Post Office. |
rfofsolitude (1352 ) (view author's auctions)04/06/04 04:16 PM(#4 of 88) |
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| this has been debated to death the rules seem to be 1. New comics do not qualify for media mail because of advertising-- but old ones seem to as ads in them are old ads. -- 2. TPB's- and such- which are books- can qualify for media mail- as they are books. 3. Post Office is cracking down on misuse of Media mail people selling stuff on ebay send clothes, shoes, and all kinds of stuff using media mail if they can so many Post Offices are opening them up -- which they are allowed to do 4. Media mail can be opened by Post Office any time in transit... while first class- and Priority Mail- can't without some legal reason.. Post offices around the country do not enforce this the same way- or interpret it the same way-- so you run a chance of getting stuff sent back to you with postage due on it.-- or worse- showing up at your customers with postage due. I personally stopped using media mail for comics last year and use priority mail for anything over 13 OZ. - and parcel post for larger lots. and first class for anything under and believe it or not- it has not made any difference on my sales either. Rick |
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jenk56 (79) (view author's auctions) 04/06/04 06:44 PM(#5 of 88) |
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| my
post office has told me comic books are ok for media mail. What is the
big no-no is to take priority mail supplies (such as turning the boxes
inside out) and using them for media mail. On a side note, the post office that is close to my work (rather than the one near to my home) will not allow the Priority Mail flat rate envelope (and $3.85 fee) to be charged if the envelope is thicker than the clerks finger (and I guess that varies by clerk). Try finding that one in the rules. The post office near my home says only one piece of tape can be used on a Priority Mail flat rate envelope (no such restriction on the one near work). Another post office that I occasionally use tells me that the flat rate envelope can only weigh a pound or the rate goes up. Media Mail is not the only thing the post office gets confused about. (And I would recommend that no one ever tell a clerk that they are wrong, it will only cause you more problems in the future). |
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girlsaurus_x (72) (view author's auctions) 04/06/04 09:41 PM(#6 of 88) |
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| Different Post Offices with different standards? Well... Shouldn't you be able to stuff anything you want in a Flat-Rate envelope? That's the whole point! How weird. I think the Post Office has stopped using Flat Rates for Prirority Mail, that might explain why it has to weight less than one pound. Some flat rate. Still, I definetely Priority Mail is the way to go. There's too much baggage with Media. You get what you pay for. Thanks guys, you've called many things to my attention concerning this issue. |
gallinator (934 ) (view author's auctions)04/06/04 11:12 PM(#7 of 88) |
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| I will swear by Media Mail until I die. Priority Mail is a complete and total scam perpetrated by the USPS. MM is safe. MM is fast enough for most. MM is inexpensive. MM (with Delivery Confirmation) is the way to go! |
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capt.steel (253) (view author's auctions) 04/07/04 06:02 AM(#8 of 88) |
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| Everyone
here is speaking truth & I have to agree with gallinator - I've had
2 yrs of using MM for comics without a single problem (with MM anyway!) The reason these conflicting points of view are truth is because the Post Office cannot agree on what it's own standards are - their own employees don't even understand or know half of their own regulations! Dealing with the different P.O. branches & their different rules is like driving down a highway where one cop pulls you over & gives you a ticket for going 1 mile over the speed limit, another just gives you a warning for going 40 mph over, another cop gives you a ride in his cruiser & shows you how it can go 120 mph, another cop asks if you've been drinking and if so, do you have any left to share, and another cop pulls you over & shoots you through the head for driving too slow! The USPS needs to simplify & expedite by offering more standardized flat rates (they've got so many different, complicated & expensive options now, it's no wonder their own employees can't keep them straight!) |
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fulltimer56 (137) (view author's auctions) 04/07/04 06:43 AM(#9 of 88) |
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| I
use to use Priority Mail for all my shipping but I was selling a lot of
key issues so the people buying those was willing to pay the bigger
amount for shipping but I found that with the issues I'm selling now,
people don't wont to pay the higher shipping so now I'm using first
class for stuff under 10oz. and Media Mail for the rest. When I was living in Cumming I went to the PO there and talk to a couple of the cashiers plus the post master about using Media Mail and was told I could. When I moved to Griffin last month the first thing I did was go to the PO and have a talk with the post master and the cashiers about Media Mail and was told I could use it for my old comics, which is all that I'm selling. I also have not had any trouble with MM and that the longest it has taken for a package to get to my customer has been 7 days. So until something happens I'm going Media Mail! Sorry for the long post, guys. Linda |
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dazzlinkat (285) (view author's auctions) 04/07/04 09:29 AM(#10 of 88) |
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| I use Priority as my PO does not allow any comics into Media Mail. |
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galactipus (414) (view author's auctions) 04/07/04 11:48 AM(#11 of 88) |
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| Girlasaur--you can stuff anything you want into a priority flat rate envelope. |
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mrwoogieman (478) (view author's auctions) 04/07/04 04:21 PM(#12 of 88) |
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| galactipus, Not quite, because you are not permitted to seal the flat rate envelopes with external tape anymore. Apparently, people were taking advantage (no, really) by stuffing them so full that they couldn't even close them, and then mummifying them with tape to secure them. The PO got wise and instituted the no external tape rule for the flat rate PM envelopes. So, if whatever you are stuffing in there won't seal properly with the thin little strip of glue affixed to the inside flap, you're out of luck. Since that thin little strip of adhesive never seems to seal properly, I use double sided tape to hold that flap down. Seems to work well. |
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gallinator (934) (view author's auctions) 04/07/04 04:24 PM(#13 of 88) |
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| On
the rare occasions when I do send Priority Mail, I use Scotch packaging
tape on the outside of the flat rate mailer. No one's ever had a
problem. Boy, is my P.O. lenient or what? |
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270-13 (157) (view author's auctions) 04/07/04 04:42 PM(#14 of 88) |
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| just
had my first alleged lost package via media mail. i have to assume the
buyer isn't full of it given that he's been pretty nice about it,
e-mailing me every week or so for the last 6. i guess i'll give him his
money back. luckily it was a cheap item. i've head media mail take more than 3 weeks. i've also had it get to its destination in 2 days, sometimes far away. |
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skg-auctions (286) (view author's auctions) 04/07/04 05:04 PM(#15 of 88) |
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| I'm
had a postal clerk try to charge me the variable Global Priority rate
on a flat rate envelope because there was tape on the outside. I had
the envelope stuffed pretty good, but I was just re-enforcing the
envelope. Supposedly the restriction is that you can't use tape to modify the envelope to make it larger than it's normal dimensions. In my case, when the clerk was scanning the bar code on the envelope, but it wouldn't let her charge beyond the normal flat rate. Thankfully. |
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comicstock (445) (view author's auctions) 04/07/04 05:14 PM(#16 of 88) |
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| I've never had a problem with Media Mail no matter which post office I've used in Florida. One of the clerks had asked me twice over the last 2 months what was I shipping and I said 'old comic books' and he seemed satisfied with my answer, not telling me why he asked...and I didn't verbally wonder why. I've only had one package lost using Media over the past 2 years. An old fanzine going to the West Coast. I'm using a piece or two or three of clear tape on my Priority Mail shipments with no balking by the post office. So far, so good. |
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capt.steel (253) (view author's auctions) 04/07/04 08:14 PM(#17 of 88) |
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| Darn
- & I always reinforce the flap & all 4 corners of Priority
Flat Rate Envelopes with tape (I don't trust that cheesy little glue
strip either!) Good thing nobody chooses Priority anymore when I offer Media Mail, huh?  Usual question at the P.O.: "Anything hazardous?" Most 'Media Mail' directed question I ever got after requesting MM: "Books?" My answer: "Yep!" |
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gallinator (934) (view author's auctions) 04/08/04 07:45 AM(#18 of 88) |
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| http://forums.ebay.com/db1/thread.jsp?forum=96&thread=410071225&start=108&msRange=50 I just had to stir the hornet's nest over on the Packaging and Shipping board. That link will start with my post (and challenge). Not that I think any of you will necessarily agree with me or my stance on using Priority Mail supplies, but every now and then it is interesting to see into the workings of other boards. |
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galactipus (414) (view author's auctions) 04/08/04 08:06 AM(#19 of 88) |
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| I have never heard about the external tape issue. I don't think I've used it in a while, but sometimes when the envelope is filled to capacity (but *not* overstuffed) I don't like the open corners at the top that sometimes result, so I close them up with a strip of tape around. I can't imagine them having a problem with it. |
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skg-auctions (286) (view author's auctions) 04/08/04 09:11 AM(#20 of 88) |
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| Gall, great posts over there. Reading that thread, brought this image to mind: http://www.bruteprop.com/v1/gallery/pages/cops.html |
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girlsaurus_x (72) (view author's auctions) 04/08/04 10:22 AM(#21 of 88) |
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| I
used to ship Media Mail and I always answered the questions "What are
you shipping?" with "Books" to avoid any hassles. A friend pointed out
that that was basically deceitful, because comics are not exactly books
and that is wasn't right to lie just to get a cheaper rate. I agreed
and use only Priority for mi comic shipments now. ---Girlsaurus_X http://comics.girlsaurus.com |
aveblahblah (48 ) (view author's auctions)04/08/04 11:01 AM(#22 of 88) |
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| I would lean more towards considering them books. They are physically more like magazines but magazines are full of articles and interviews while a comic is more story based which would be more "book like". I find this whole mess that the post office has created to be absolutely stupid. A new comic might have ads in it but if I mail a current issue of X-Men to a customer then I'm doing so to deliver a purchased comic not to advertise video games, chewing gum or whatever else is found being advertised inside. |
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secrets1968 (19) (view author's auctions) 04/08/04 01:00 PM(#23 of 88) |
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| If
a collection of Calvin and Hobbes comic strips can be considered a
book, then 22 pages of Spider-Man can be called a book. However, for
those who feel this is decietful, since it's ok to send software by
Media Mail, the next time they ask what you're shipping, just say
"Floppies"! (Ducking objects thrown by the Comic Police)
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skg-auctions (286) (view author's auctions) 04/08/04 01:28 PM(#24 of 88) |
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| Well, I'm sure being a business hurt doesn't hurt! Neat Stuff Collectibles tends to send Comics as media mail with Priority Mail boxes and envelopes chopped up for protection! |
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secrets1968 (19) (view author's auctions) 04/08/04 05:40 PM(#25 of 88) |
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| Well, the point is I'm NOT a business; I'm just wondering if using those labels grants me special treatment. |
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skg-auctions (286) (view author's auctions) 04/08/04 07:25 PM(#26 of 88) |
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| Well,
I never meant that you're the business, just more on the general case
that I see a business using the system like some of us little guys. I think that if you're printing those labels, the clerks think thay you know what you doing and let it alone! |
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capt.steel (253) (view author's auctions) 04/09/04 12:11 PM(#27 of 88) |
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| Well
I hate to disagree with girlsaurus (seeing as she's just a kid &
all - hee-hee!). But I don't feel I'm deceiving anyone when I say Comic
Books are "Books". First - most Post Offices DO allow comics to be shipped via Media Mail thus clasifying them as books (though some P.O.'s do not, I can't change the fact that most do. I would have to guess that in a convoluted, poorly defined and often contradictory system of postal standards that Majority Rule wins.) Secondly - I didn't coin the phrase "Comic Book". But I'm looking at one shelf of my bookcase (the shelf that has all comic related items) & I see the word "Book" or "Books" jumping off many of the bindings right after the word "Comic"! These, mostly hard-bound or paperback, reference compendiums are all refering to those floppy paper periodicals that society has taken to decribing as "comic books". So comics are "books" just based on their name - a name which is widely accepted & used by western civilization. They are a type of book, a comic... book. If it is deceitful to call comic books "books", then we as a society should remove & replace the word "books" from the very label we hase ascribed to them. If a postal worker were to ever ask me, "What type of book?" (which I have a strong feeling will never happen) I, being an honest person would then reply, "A Comic Book." |
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girlsaurus_x (72) (view author's auctions) 04/09/04 10:17 PM(#28 of 88) |
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Heeeeeeeeey, I'm no kid! I've being legally and adult for two whole years, alright?? I just can't tell the the poor Postman (who probably doens't like his job anyways) that I am shipping *books* when they are *comic* books and keep a clean conscience. And then if the Postman decides the 30 packages I was going to ship HAVE TO go Priority Mail instead and loose all my profits on the $2-$10 books I sold. Oooh no, happened once, not happening again. And I just can't keep track of which Post Office is comic friendly and which one isn't. It's too much, I can't take it, aaaaah! Why, oh why, are comics so discriminated against? Sniff. We don't get a break from anyone. It's the old Batman TV series fault, no one takes us seriously. They think comics are just a bunch of drawings with characters with silly costumes that you can even see their white zippers on their backs. |
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capt.steel (253) (view author's auctions) 04/09/04 10:24 PM(#29 of 88) |
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| LOL! I agree - it IS the old Batman TV series' fault - all of it - the Postal Service, Media Mail, Paypal fees! Darn that Adam West & his flabby waistline!
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gallinator (934) (view author's auctions) 04/09/04 10:42 PM(#30 of 88) |
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| You can blame Adam, but it's really Burt's fault, with that saucy little outfit of his... |
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270-13 (157) (view author's auctions) 04/10/04 08:47 AM(#31 of 88) |
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| If
you have little scale at home (let's say to weigh herbs from your
garden or whatever, or heck, even a postage scale!) you can figure out
how much something weights. from there it's pretty easy to determine
how much media mail costs --- $1.42 for up to 1 lb, $1.84 for up to 2
lbs, $2.26 for up to 3, etc... if you have enough small denomination stamps and some big ones it's easy enough to put your own postage on (much easier with your own postage meter or online postage, but i think that entails another monthly fee...yech!) So why do you need to ever deal with the postal people and their questions? Just dump your packages in the mail box at the PO? (with enough protection so that the "dump" doesn't cause damage). I've done this before when I needed to mail something by media and couldn't go to the office to use the postage meter. Packages got to their destination. Of ocurse, my experience is with big city POs. don't know what it's like in a small town. |
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galactipus (414) (view author's auctions) 04/11/04 12:11 PM(#32 of 88) |
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| There are restrictions on that. Anything over a certain size/weight MUST be brought inside to the counter. I think most comics shipments would be over that restriction. |
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girlsaurus_x (72) (view author's auctions) 04/11/04 08:02 PM(#33 of 88) |
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| Any shipment can be dropped as long as it fits in the mailbox if you have used e-Postage. ---Girlsaurus_X http://comics.girlsaurus.com |
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girlsaurus_x (72) (view author's auctions) 04/11/04 08:06 PM(#34 of 88) |
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| Anyone remember the days when the FF was REALLY the greatest comicbook around? |
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aveblahblah (48) (view author's auctions) 04/11/04 08:58 PM(#35 of 88) |
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| The FF are doing good now days I think but no problem not the greatest. The Paul Ryan days were the only issues that I truly thought were cr@p. You remember that goofy helmet Thing wore after Wolverine cut his face. I thought that issue was so funny because the FF and New FF were destroying property in that fight and as soon as someone got hurt Wolverine was feeling so guilty about it. What else was he swinging those claws around for unless it was to cut someone right? |
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galactipus (414) (view author's auctions) 04/12/04 10:38 AM(#36 of 88) |
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| John Byrne's run was the greatest. |
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gifflefunk(auctions) (122) (view author's auctions) 05/08/04 07:44 AM(#37 of 88) |
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| Today I just sent a box of comics Media Mail. I walked up and placed the box on the counter and said "I would like to ship this as cheap as possible." The clerk weighed the box and said "$7.55... unless it is Media?" "Good question. The box contains a stack of 1960s and 1970s comic books and some offices classify them as Media and some do not.", I said. "How so?", she asked. "Apparently branch offices are allowed to interpret the rules for Media Mail...", I stated in a inquisitive manner. She nodded her head in the affirmitive. And I continued "...and here are the three most common interpretations given: 1) Comics do not qualify because they contain advertisments within them. 2) Comics do qualify because their primary purpose is not advertising, they are an entertainment magazines that just contains advertising. Much like a TV show is not a commercial even though commercials occur during the broadcast. 3) Older Comics with obsolete advertising do qualify, but newer comics with current advertising do not qualify. So I leave it up to you to tell me if they are Media or not." The clerk attending to me said "interesting", and a nearby clerk who had been listening made an audible "oooh" sound. My clerk then wrote herself a note and said "I'm going to ask about this because we should be consistent." I agreed and then she said "For now I'm calling them Media and your total is $3.94." She took my money and stamped Media Mail a dozen times on the package. |
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capt.steel (253) (view author's auctions) 05/08/04 09:30 AM(#38 of 88) |
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| That IS interesting. Don't know if this has anything to do with the rumored "crack-down" on Media Mail, but at one of the P.O.'s I used I was questioned by a clerk. (There was also no line at that time, so maybe she was just making small talk...?) She asked why I always seem to request Media Mail. I told her, "because I ship mostly books that I sell on eBay." She asked what kind of books? I told her, "all different kinds..." (which was 100% true - I was selling several types of books in addition to comics at the time.) "Children's books?" she asked in a strangely suspicious manner (I have no idea where that question was going.) I responded, "sometimes, if I come across them." She asked how I came to have so many books. I told her, "many I bought over the years, some I inherited from relatives, but I'm running out of room & have to get rid of some." We talked a little more about selling on eBay, why I was selling so many books (I told her I was trying to clean house & needed money since I lost my job), etc. The only strange part is she's never questioned me before and these questions started off on the subject of Media Mail and what type of books I was shipping. MM Crack-down or just chit-chat, what do you think? |
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galactipus (414) (view author's auctions) 05/08/04 11:12 AM(#39 of 88) |
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| She wants you. |
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fulltimer56 (137) (view author's auctions) 05/08/04 11:30 AM(#40 of 88) |
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| or she had some work in the back she didn't wont to do!!
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cbekaj (348) (view author's auctions) 05/08/04 11:35 AM(#41 of 88) |
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| Or you look like a perv, which explains the suspicious question, "Children's books?" |
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pigeon-camera (641) (view author's auctions) 05/08/04 12:00 PM(#42 of 88) |
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| Call them "documents". doc·u·ment ( P ) Pronunciation Key (dky-mnt) n. A written or printed paper that bears the original, official, or legal form of something and can be used to furnish decisive evidence or information. Something, such as a recording or a photograph, that can be used to furnish evidence or information. A writing that contains information. |
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call*me*laurie (57) (view author's auctions) 05/08/04 06:53 PM(#43 of 88) |
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| I
just happened upon this thread, and thought I'd share this with all of
you whose PO clerks give you a hard time regarding the use of Flat Rate
Priority Mail envelopes with tape. I printed this out and carry it with me whenever I go to the PO, just in case there is a new clerk who is unaware of the rules. The first time I gave them a copy, the gal said "Geez...I wish they let US know about this". http://www.usps.com/mailerscompanion/mar2002/mc0302art5.htm (scroll down to the bottom) DMM Reminder Priority Mail and Express Mail Flat-Rate Envelopes When mailing at the Priority Mail or Express Mail flat rate, the contents of the flat-rate envelope must be confined within the envelope with the adhesive provided on the flap as the primary means of closure. The flap must be able to close and adhere to the envelope. Tape may be applied to reinforce the envelope provided the design of the envelope is not enlarged by any means (i.e., opening the sides of the envelope and then taping or reconstructing the envelope). Any amount of material that can be mailed in the special Priority Mail or Express Mail flat-rate envelope available from the USPS is subject to the appropriate 2-pound rate, regardless of the weight of the material placed in the envelope. Express Mail and Priority Mail packaging provided by the USPS must be used only for Express Mail or Priority Mail, as applicable. Regardless of how the packaging is reconfigured or how markings may be obliterated, any matter mailed in USPS-provided Express Mail or Priority Mail packaging is charged the appropriate Express Mail or Priority Mail rate. As far as the MM vs Priority "arguement", the Postmaster here will not allow us to ship comics via MM as they contains advertising (as was stated before), so we have to ship everything over 13 oz Priority, which doesn't seem to hold back our sales. Customers receive their packages much quicker than if they paid for MM. Anything under 13 oz goes First Class. ALL packaages are shipped with Delivery Confirmation, regardless of payment method. |
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girlsaurus_x (72) (view author's auctions) 05/10/04 09:09 AM(#44 of 88) |
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| Cap: What is interesting is how you avoided at all costs to say they were COMICS. |
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capt.steel (253) (view author's auctions) 05/10/04 08:02 PM(#45 of 88) |
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| Hmmm... that IS interesting. I was never asked what was in the package I was shipping that day - I was only asked why I request a lot of Media Mail. But I see what you're getting at. Look, the bottom line is these poor Postal workers are overworked, disoriented and confused enough as it is - they don't need more aggravation from me by offering extraneous details about whether ads in 20 year old comics exempt them from Media Mail and that graphic novels are, but comic books are not and that some comics don't have no ads, are not graphic novels and could be Media and that some Post Offices do, but others don't. Who needs that? I'm a nice guy - I'm just trying to make everything easier for everybody!
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gallinator (934) (view author's auctions) 05/10/04 10:41 PM(#46 of 88) |
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| Exactly. No need too stir the pot! What a sad world we live in where comics, which are by any definition (except, maybe, we're not sure, the USPS's) a medium, are not allowed to ship via a service designed for just such an item! |
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girlsaurus_x (72) (view author's auctions) 05/11/04 09:19 AM(#47 of 88) |
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| Well, it bothers my conscience to deliberately lie. Not telling the truth is a lie too, y'know. |
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galactipus (414) (view author's auctions) 05/11/04 01:10 PM(#48 of 88) |
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| Sometimes you have to lie for justice to be served! |
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girlsaurus_x (72) (view author's auctions) 05/11/04 01:29 PM(#49 of 88) |
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| Two wrongs don't make a right. HA! |
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galactipus (414) (view author's auctions) 05/11/04 02:17 PM(#50 of 88) |
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| No but they make it less wrong! HA!! |
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girlsaurus_x (72) (view author's auctions) 05/11/04 02:35 PM(#51 of 88) |
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| Oh yeah? HA! |
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80pagegiant (22) (view author's auctions) 05/11/04 07:05 PM(#52 of 88) |
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| Today
I recieved a 60 issue lot, shipped "media Mail" in a box that looked
like it had been ripoped open by a gorilla. It was wrapped in tape that
said "rewrapped - resealed in the u.s.p.s. Did they open it to check the contents? It got to FL from NY fast. The seller had really good feedback.(The comics were OK) |
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80pagegiant (22) (view author's auctions) 05/11/04 07:13 PM(#53 of 88) |
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| HELP! I'M trapped in this room 5 hrs after everyone else left! |
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shockme999 (0) (view author's auctions) 05/11/04 07:54 PM(#54 of 88) |
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| Most of post office employees recognize me now and know what I ship. I even helped one of the employees set up selling on eBay. I am occasionally asked what are the contents. I generally reply books or comic books. I don't feel like I am lying when I just say "Books". I figure it's pretty obvious what type of books I am shipping. 90% of the boxes I use are from local comic shop and say Diamond Comic Distributors on them. As to the above about opened box, it's possible it was checked but also likely the box got partially opened in processing and they resealed it so that item wasn't lost. I've never seen a package inspected in route. I've had a few checked at counter and never had them seal it with special tape. I think they use the marked type so it's clear what occured. I've received boxes too that were reused boxes that were in crappy shape. |
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gallinator (934) (view author's auctions) 05/11/04 10:51 PM(#55 of 88) |
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| Re: post 47 (girlsaurus) That's the problem with the nouveau-Christian absolute moralism; it allows stupid rules to override rational thought, all in the spirit of "honesty" or some such nonsense, relying upon a sense of guilt that is carefully cultivated by the Powers That Be in order to control one's thoughts, words and deeds. But apparently that works for a lot of people. |
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mordo (260) (view author's auctions) 05/12/04 01:03 AM(#56 of 88) |
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| 80pagegiant, at least half of my media mail packages look like they've been partially opened. I think I remember seeing a sign in the Post Office saying that media mail packages are subject to inspection. |
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capt.steel (253) (view author's auctions) 05/12/04 07:28 AM(#57 of 88) |
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| Not telling the truth is not lying. It's called omission, and we all do it all the time. Remember the old saying; mother alsways said if you can't say anything nice, say nothing at all? That's an example of omission to spare the feelings of another. In order to communicate effectively we must omit an infinite number of truths constantly - you can't go into every truthful detail when communicating. When asked what's in a box, a truthful description could be carried to a ridiculous extreme where you get to the point of describing the atomic structure of the matter inside - decribing the atomic makeup would still be a truthful answer, but it would take all day and be irrelevent to the intent of the question. When I'm asked that question at the P.O. I know their intent is to find out if I'm shipping something that is media or am I trying to ship a toaster at Media rates. When I say books (and I'm shipping comic books), I'm answering the intent of their question and being honest without going into extraneous details that could slow down & possible confound the process. |
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girlsaurus_x (72) (view author's auctions) 05/12/04 07:56 AM(#58 of 88) |
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| And not telling the truth so you will not be obligued to pay more for shipping is not lying? |
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galactipus (414) (view author's auctions) 05/12/04 10:12 AM(#59 of 88) |
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| But he did tell the truth, didn't he? |
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capt.steel (253) (view author's auctions) 05/12/04 01:00 PM(#60 of 88) |
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| Indeed I told the truth, but not the whole truth because at what point do you stop when describing the whole truth: "...graphic narrative illustrated comic literature printed through 4-color process in bound 1/8" paged arrangement using metallic staples at binding creating a media-based booklet designed for entertainment purposes on wood-based processed pulp consisting of carbon & 64 other molecular compounds, published monthly through a subsidiaray legal agreement between the producers & publishing agents based upon a contractrual distribution agreement..." ad infinitum. I understand the real point girlsaurus is trying to make (& I'm doing my best to skirt the issue!) My answer to her is what's been stated before - when the P.O.s can agree as a single entity what their own rules are, I'll be happy to abide by them - but they all give us different stories on what their regulations are. So if one P.O. says, "sure you can ship comics Media Mail" then I will ship them that way. If another P.O. says I can't - then I'm not sure what to do - it's like if there was a highway with no posted speed limit & every cop on the highway had a different speed limit in their mind that they enforced arbitrarily. The only option drivers would be left with is to drive at the speed that is safest & most reasonable in their estimation based on the conditions of the road. Some would still be ticketed, not because they are trying to cheat the speed limit, but because the police cannot produce a concise regulation for drivers to adhere to. |
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80pagegiant (22) (view author's auctions) 05/12/04 03:06 PM(#61 of 88) |
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| Today I was told that "comics are not media mail because they are fun. Media mail is supposed to be for educational purposes". They also told me that anyone employed by the post office could open media mail. All other mail can only be opened by the postmaster. He said he wouldn't open it, and wished me luck. |
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october_fire (175) (view author's auctions) 05/12/04 03:54 PM(#62 of 88) |
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| I don't see what the big deal is. If you feel uncomfortable shipping comics via media mail, then don't do it. I personally won't lose any sleep over it. The media mail restrictions are meant to keep people from sending personal correspondence, appliances, ect. I don't think sending comics or graphic novels violates the spirit of the rule, despite their possible classification as a periodical. Furthermore, it is obvious that the post office itself is not clear on what the regulation actually means. This being the case, a person can't break the letter of the law if it can't be determined what the law actually says with any certainty. It is their job to state the rules clearly, not mine. |
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galactipus (414) (view author's auctions) 05/12/04 06:55 PM(#63 of 88) |
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| Today I was told that "comics are not media mail because they are fun. So I could ship Marville media mail. Media mail is supposed to be for educational purposes". So I could ship Death Talks About Life media mail. |
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shockme999 (0) (view author's auctions) 05/12/04 08:13 PM(#64 of 88) |
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| I
tried to ship some comics today and clerk charged me Priority. He said
someone in North Brunswick, NJ had been shipping stacks of mature
reader comics calling the children books. I was so furious, I demanded
to know this persons name. He leaned over and whispered "he calls
himself Steel"
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rochester_comics (2466) (view author's auctions) 05/12/04 09:02 PM(#65 of 88) |
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| Comics
are not allowed Media Mail. No matter what! The rules have been laid
out for all to see. Why? They contain ads. New or old. Doesn't matter.
What I don't understand and like others have said here, is, why aren't
they allowed. The service is perfect for them. What is lost by the PO
in allowing it to be used for comics? Makes no sense. I ship them
Parcel or Priority Mail. It's not that big of a deal. First class under
a pound. It's the dumbest rule going. My PO has made me aware of it but
yet, can't really explain it logically. Just give us what we want, charge us, and give us good service or we'll go to USPS or Fed EX. It's not that inconvienent anymore to switch for some where drop off points are close by. |
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capt.steel (253) (view author's auctions) 05/12/04 09:06 PM(#66 of 88) |
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| HEYYYY!!!! |
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capt.steel (253) (view author's auctions) 05/12/04 09:17 PM(#67 of 88) |
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| I
not only don't understand why comics aren't allowed, but why (if they
are not allowed) do so many P.O.'s allow them & say, "Oh comics,
yeah they're like... uh... Media I guess... aah there some kinda book
anyway so sure, why not!" Or my favorite all time response when I asked the difference between Media & Bound Printed Matrer... "Same thing, sweety... I call it book rate. *snap* (sound of gum snapping) books, comics, music, movies, paper, whatevah... it's all the same. So ya want book rate, sweety?" Like the lady said... "whatevah!" Sounds good to me! Again - if the rules have been laid out for all to see, how come a vast majority of Postal Workers are the ones who've been left out of the loop? |
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gifflefunk (1012) (view author's auctions) 05/12/04 09:22 PM(#68 of 88) |
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| Comics are not allowed Media Mail. No matter what! You better read post #37 and then catch the next plane to Ann Arbor, MI, to inform my PO. They didn't have a problem sending them Media Mail. I told them exactly what was in the box and the three most common reasons given for comics being, and not being, considered for Media Mail. They decided they were qualified for Media Mail and sent them that way for me. |
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gifflefunk (1012) (view author's auctions) 05/12/04 10:39 PM(#69 of 88) |
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| Ok... I couldn't sleep so I went off to pe.usps.gov and I found the actual postal regulations. The two areas that relate to our discussion here are the following sub-sections E610 Basic Standards (in the E600 Standard Mail section) and E713 Media Mail (in the E700 Package Services section). E610 2.2 Printed Matter Printed matter weighing less than 16 ounces may be sent as Standard Mail. For this standard, printed matter means paper on which words, letters, characters, figures, or images (or any combination of them), not having the character of a bill or statement of account or of actual and personal correspondence, are reproduced by any process other than handwriting or typewriting. Ok, no mention of advertising here... just bills, statements of account and correspondence. So comic books are printed matter. E713 1.1 Qualified Items a. Books, including books issued to supplement other books of at least eight printed pages, consisting wholly of reading matter or scholarly bibliography, or reading matter with incidental blank spaces for notations and containing no advertising matter other than incidental announcements of books. Advertising includes paid advertising and the publishers' own advertising in display, classified, or editorial style. c. Printed music, whether in bound or sheet form. [b,d-i items deleted as they are irrelevant to the discussion] Ok, this would exclude comics that contain paid advertisments that exist as pages. I'm not sure about the obsolete aspect for advertisments published in the 1950s, but for arguments sake we will call all paid advertising (be it current or obsolete) as advertising. So comics do not qualify as Media Mail. E713 1.2 Loose Enclosures In addition to the enclosures and additions listed in E610, any printed matter that is mailable as Standard Mail may be included loose with any qualifying material mailed at the Media Mail rates. Look, a loophole! You can print out a sheet of music and include it in a package containing no more than 16 ounces of comic books and the package can be shipped as Media Mail. The sheet of music is qualified material and comics meet the definition for Standard Mail. So long as you are only sending 1 pound or less of comics, with the sheet of music, it can all go Media Mail! Now, there is still that question regarding obsolete advertising still being advertising vs. historical text (the argument being "how can you advertise something that no longer exists?"). Has it become historical text and hence part of the reading material? If so, older comics may qualify under E713 1.1 a as Media Mail. I plan to take this post into my local Main Office to get a definition on "advertising vs. historical text". |
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capt.steel (253) (view author's auctions) 05/12/04 11:08 PM(#70 of 88) |
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| Thanks gifflefunk! You are my hero! |
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gifflefunk (1012) (view author's auctions) 05/13/04 05:15 AM(#71 of 88) |
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| And for those needing it.... Sheet music from 1886 putting it in the public domain (we wouldn't want to violate copyright law would we?
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gifflefunk (1012) (view author's auctions) 05/13/04 05:19 AM(#72 of 88) |
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| Err, from 1882 actually. |
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shockme999 (0) (view author's auctions) 05/13/04 06:59 AM(#73 of 88) |
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| Just tear the ads out before shipping the books, problem solved. You could always send Bound Printed Matter. Only 1 post office out of 7 around here won't allow me to ship comics media mail. The one post office that doesn't tells me to ship them BPM. Price works out to be the same or very close over the long run averaging out the zones. Just mark return service requested so on the off chance it's undeliverable you get it back. |
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gifflefunk (1012) (view author's auctions) 05/13/04 07:45 AM(#74 of 88) |
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| Well, I just sent another box of comics Media Mail. I took the information I've found online and went to the main office located here in Ann Arbor, MI. I spoke with the clerk and told him what was inside as well as the same three interpretations that I had told the previous clerk at the branch office. I said that he would have no problem sending vintage comics (i.e. they contain obsolete advertising) Media Mail. But to further clarify the matter he suggested that I speak with their Bulk Mail and Classification person. So I was allowed into the back to speak with a wonderful lady who knows tons of information. I explained the case to her (the different interpretations and that these were pre-1960 comics that contain obsolete advertising, etc.). She used her PC to investigate this further on the RIBBS website (http://ribbs.usps.gov/). She didn't find anything specific on comic books, but she did find something regarding "historical advertisments". Apparently a book reprinting historical advertisments would qualify for Media Mail. So her interpretation (by extension) is that the obsolete advertisments themselves (i.e. the original in the comic) are also historical and do not disqualify vintage comics from Media Mail. So I sent the box Media Mail. Now to make things consistent for all branches she told me that what would be needed is an official ruling from Rates and Classification in Chicago, IL (and she gave me the phone number). This is the group that can send out a national update to all offices (and give us something to cite so clerks can look up the rule for verification). She also told me that the loophole I found is completely valid, but the entire package-weight must be under 16 ounces (the box, packing material, and items combined). I plan to contact the Rates and Classification office later today and I will report back with my findings. |
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gifflefunk (1012) (view author's auctions) 05/13/04 07:46 AM(#75 of 88) |
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| That should have read as: He said that he would have no problem sending vintage comics (i.e. they contain obsolete advertising) Media Mail. He didn't have a problem and neither did the onsite expert. |
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gifflefunk (1012) (view author's auctions) 05/13/04 08:33 AM(#76 of 88) |
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| I called the Rates and Classification office and the person responsible for Media Mail "rules" is not in the office today, but he will be in the office tomorrow. So we wait... |
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capt.steel (253) (view author's auctions) 05/13/04 09:13 AM(#77 of 88) |
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| Wow! Talk about action-oriented! On behalf of all the comic Sellers here, gifflefunk, I'd like to thank you for your service! Your results may help all of us be able to ship comics more efficiently & affordably without worries of breaking some individual's interpretation of an arbitrary rule! |
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fulltimer56 (137) (view author's auctions) 05/13/04 09:34 AM(#78 of 88) |
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gifflefunk, I second capt. by saying THANK YOU! Maybe we can get this worked out!!!  Linda |
| galactipus (414 |